My MB build

[Rooney77]

This will be my little, slow going build thread. I'm building a 1942 MB. Plans are 4.3 motor, 4L60e trans and a Dana 300 tcase. For axles I'm going to run a hp front 44 and a 9" rear. This build started with nothing but a body. I've got the frame built and body mounts done and am working on motor placement. I will try to remember to post up pics this evening.

[Rooney77]

Here it is with the body mounted to the custom frame. First time in years the body has been bolted to anything.
556
This is how the motor sits in the frame. Good to see something under the hood for once.
557
This is just showing how I plan on having my floor arranged when I'm done.
558

[PondSkum]

Cool project! Thanks for sharing.. would you like it moved to the main Build Thread section, or keep it here?

[Rooney77]

Whichever. It's not like there is a ton of traffic in here. :102

[Stouttrout]

Sweet. What suspension and tire size are you looking to get. You made alot room for that trans too. Great build. Keep the pics coming.

[PondSkum]

Whichever. It's not like there is a ton of traffic in here. :102

Ok, I moved it to Builds, and left a permanent redirect so you can still see if from Lufkin forum.

[Rooney77]

Coolness. Thanks.

Things are going kinda slow on it right now as I'm at a stop and stare at it point. I've got to figure out how to mount my radiator and it's got me stumped for some reason. Next weekend I go pick up my axle. Very excited about that.

[Rooney77]

Sweet. What suspension and tire size are you looking to get. You made alot room for that trans too. Great build. Keep the pics coming.

Ya I guess I should have mentioned the tires. I'll be running something in the 36" range. I'm still undecided if I'm going to comp cut or just get it really close to the back and shift the wheel well. As for suspension, I'm shooting for a rear 4 link and front 3 link. We will see how it goes, these things are tiny at best. My trans tunnel will end up being a console. I figured I'd go ahead and do that and have it as one tunnel instead of mounted to a tunnel, since I had no floor to start with.

I'll add more pics when I'm at my home computer.

[Mudhog1977]

Have you got a front axle yet?

[Rooney77]

Have you got a front axle yet?

Ya, I got a Ford HP44 and matching 9 for it. I'm hoping this weekend I can actually get them placed under it, my radiator mount done and my full on custom 36" 3/4" plywood tires mounted. (mock up ghetto style):)

[Mudhog1977]

I've got a lot of parts to gather yet hopefully I can buy a 9" next paycheck AMD then I gotta find a 302

[Rooney77]

Well I guess I should update this thread. I've changed drivetrain directions since a TDI beetle has become available. I've sold the 4.3/4l60e and am now going to run the 2000 TDI with a t176 and an np231/d300(4:1) doubler. This will allow me to keep the 4.11 gears in my axles, keeping the motor in the correct rpm range when on the street, and give me gearing options from the tcase, not to mention being almost a foot shorter than the original planned drivetrain. At the moment there is very little progress on the jeep itself. I have mocked some toy rear leafs under the front since they have the offset pin and I've got all the necessary components for the rear 4 link and air shocks.

I've been busy pulling the entire vw harness to be reused in the jeep since I know all the components work and all the thinking has been done for me. I plan on using it for everything including the tail lights. I've got the column and gauge out to be reused and the front end torn apart to pull the motor once I get the harness out. I cannot tell you how hard it was to find the ecu. Stupid thing was under the top cover of the dash in front of the driver in a little pocket you could only access by removing the entire dash. It has been a nightmare.

If anyone is interested I can post some pics of the torn apart beetle and how my frame sits now.

[Mudhog1977]

How u gonna do motor mounts

[Rooney77]

I can do a truss system to utilize the front motor mount or there are some useable holes on the side of the block where I could make a cradle type setup. Either way it'll all be fab and those will probably be the hardest part of the install. Hopefully.

[Mudhog1977]

Cool was wondering bout that cause of the front wheel drive setup, if you need help and I'm off work I'll help out if you need me to

[Rooney77]

Well I'll be in the shop all day Saturday if you'd like to swing by. Any help is always appreciated. I still gotta think of a name for this thing since it'll be a lot of German VW parts on a US Military MB.

[Mudhog1977]

Gotta work this weekend wish I could

[Rooney77]

Well I finally got the motor pulled out of the Beetle. I figured I'd swing it between the frame rails and get a feel for what all I have to do. There aren't enough holes on the driver's side of the block for me to make a motor mount out of so I'm going to have to use the factor mount on the front of the block. The stock setup used that mount and the trans mount to hold the hold setup so I'm sure it will be sufficient in this application as well. As you can see I'm going to get some interference from the actuator for the turbo as well as the ac compressor. Unfortunately the TDI setups without ac placed the power steering pump in the same location as the ac compressor is now. I'm hoping I can come up with a way to eliminate the compressor and not relocate the pump.

Also, for a radiator, I can't use the factory rad because it is WAY to wide. The only option I've found for a rad with both outlets on the driver's side is on Summit and cost quite a bit more than I'd like to spend. Does anyone know of a rad that's 23" overall width with the outlets on the driver's side? This issue has me at a stand still.

10941095109610971098

[Rooney77]

Well I guess this thread is long overdue for an update. I've gotten a ton of things done. I'll try to update it this evening. And I promise it'll be pic heavy.

[squeaky]

:popcorn

[texasfrog]

:think:poke:sleep

[Rooney77]

Well after getting the motor slung inbetween the frame rails there were obvious issues with the compressor and axle as well as the intake and the hood. So after some searching I found a guy on a TDI forum who is modding my intake to shorten it, delete the EGR and still retain the anti-shudder valve (prevents diesel run away). I shipped that out this morning to him. I was able to delete the compressor with a custom idler pulley/tensioner bracket I made. Both mods will net me about 7" between the motor and the front pumpkin. So off to the pics.

First up, I had a heck of a time finding a suitable radiator. The VW has both hoses coming out of what is now the driver's side of the block so I had to find a rad with both intake/output on the driver's side. I finally found one that would fit between the headlights on the MB grill. Success, until I had to mount it. So the first pics are of my rad mount.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/23_zpscc917535.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/22_zps278091e8.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/25_zps30ae6b1c.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/27_zps7b1f8578.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/27_zps7b1f8578.jpg

Once I got that done I decided to take my cooling system from this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/40_zps7038151a.jpg

to this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/41_zps129d68ac.jpg

By eliminating all the yellow junk on this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/21_zpse62413ac.jpg

All the remaining hoses you see are the vacuum hoses. Those will all be replaced/rerouted/cleaned up once I get it in the engine bay.

[Rooney77]

Well at this point I'm still waiting on my adapter to mate my T176 to the back of the TDI. I got my box4rocks kit and have got it installed on the NP231 to mate with my Dana 300 with 4:1 and twin stick. Who says 90HP won't be enough :D. FYI, I plan on installing a kit that will put me at 150HP and 345ft/lbs. That's V8 territory of torque and all from a motor weighing less than 400lbs.

Since I don't have the adapter kit yet, I decided to atleast tackle the motor mount plates, those attached to the engine. There aren't a whole lot of options in this department since the TDI is only used in front wheel drive applications. So I had to start from scratch and make my own. At this point all I have completed is the motor plates. I can't really position the motor till I get the kit so I'm at a bit of a stand still with the mounts. For bushings I'll be using some mid 70's Mercedes 300D mounts.

Passenger side:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/20130217_175738_zpsbcd29ee2.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/20130217_180209_zps346185ae.jpg

Driver's side: (not 100% happy with it but it will work and not be seen so I'll let it slide)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/20130217_150258_zps04ca9662.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/20130217_150123_zps77501dfa.jpg

Now those of you who have been paying attention may have noticed the change in position of the turbo. Well the turbo and exhaust manifold are integral. Which seemed to be a problem since the output was right where my motor mount needed to be. Well after a little head scratching and a lot of beer, I realized I could clock it....:homer:, so here's the before and after.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/36_zpsd44be198.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/37_zpsacd20403.jpg

[Rooney77]

Well at this point I have removed my compressor but was still at a huge stand still trying to figure out how to reroute the serpentine belt. I had a great idea but it would reverse rotate the alternator. Not a problem in a gas motor but the diesel alternator has a clutched pulley since the motor doesn't spin at a consistent rpm, AKA won't spin in reverse. So I had been mulling this one over for a while. When I saw the perfect solution. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. Pic one is a diagram of the stock configuration with my hen scratching attempts at picking a new route. I set it up to use an off-the-shelf belt from any auto parts store. This way at least one piece of this rig will be easily replaced. The rest are pretty self explanatory.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/30_zpsb2fb82fb.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/49_zps938c8096.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/48_zps77a64c23.jpg

edit: Yes the top slot is slanted. This was on purpose so that as the bracket slides up the top moves away from the timing belt cover. Gave me an extra 1/8" of sliding movement.

Now you have to remember that the compressor actually hung lower than the oil pan. And the pumpkin basically wanted to live in the same location as the compressor. So this gave me a ton of extra room and with the intake mod I'll be able to move the motor up a few inches higher. Assuming I designed the mod correctly (fingers crossed).

That pretty much catches ya up. Doesn't seem like much but since this motor is practically unheard of in jeeps there just isn't much, if any, available info so I'm having to research my butt off, head scratch and fab/scrap/refab a bunch of stuff. Such is life. I hope a flatty pulling mid 30's mpg will end up worth it.

At the moment, I'm waiting on my bellhousing, HPA adapter kit and flywheel adapter to show up so I can get the motor positioned and all my drivetrain mounts made. Then the fun stuff, the rear 4 link and front 3 link. Aaaah so much to do and so little money.

- - - Updated - - -

As a point of reference, here is what I was dealing with between the axle and compressor.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Rooney7783/TDI%20build/20_zpsbe6fdebe.jpg

[Rooney77]

Sold some more parts from the beetle donor so I'm off to order a 3 link front and some air shocks from Dynamic. :dance

[Mudhog1977]

looking good!

[Rooney77]

Got my doubler mocked up. I mismeasured originally so it looks like my drivetrain is an inch or two longer than expected. Which means my rear driveshaft is gonna be about 13" which is pretty dang short, even for a willys. So I'll most likely move my axle back another inch or two or mount my drivetrain at an angle.

1171

[Rooney77]

So I was sitting there staring at this thing yesterday, drinking a beer and scratching my head (pretty much where I'm stuck at till the HPA shows up) and was trying to find a way to get a longer driveshaft. I got to thinking, why couldn't I run my radiator on the side instead of behind the grill? I've got a 96 Taurus fan which can easily keep a v8 cool so I know I can pull the CFM. My fenders have no inner fenders since I cut them out to fix some rust so that means I can get the airflow in there to it. My concern is road debris, mud and rocks being thrown into when I'm out wheeling.

So, any ideas on materials I could use to replace the inner fenders that will allow air flow and still offer some protection? Airflow vs protection is the issue. I'm not sure expanded metal will fit the bill.

By moving the radiator/fan setup I can move my motor forward another 5-6".

[texasfrog]

Do you think you would have a problem with stuff getting thrown off the sides of the tire? I would think only when it gets thrown from the center. just a flap or shield at full tire lock and expanded metal for the rest??:102

Natural air flow is almost non-existent when crawling anyway so the electric fan should be fine as long as there is no obstructions.

[Rooney77]

Do you think you would have a problem with stuff getting thrown off the sides of the tire? I would think only when it gets thrown from the center. just a flap or shield at full tire lock and expanded metal for the rest??:102

Natural air flow is almost non-existent when crawling anyway so the electric fan should be fine as long as there is no obstructions.


Given that it will be basically right next to the driver's tire, assuming I'm going straight, debris shouldn't be an issue. Now when I'm turned I could see it possibly chunking something up. I'm planning on it being centered over the front axle, if I can. And it will also be back a couple of inches from where the inner fender would have been, if it had one, so that will help some too. I just don't want to limit airflow for the sake of protection but also don't want to go the other way. This will be daily driven, weather permitting of course.

[texasfrog]

I think we are on the same page of understanding,I would go for it.

[Rooney77]

Now to find some expanded metal that's not a whole dang sheet.

[Mudhog1977]

Well you can always mount it mudbogger style in the back somewhere

[Rooney77]

That's not an option. I've already got no space back there and I have to fit the fuel tank in the back. Plus with my luck, someone would come along and get curious, touch it, burn the crap out of their hand and then sue me.

- - - Updated - - -

Well I kinda played around last night. My buddy and I mocked up the hood and fender to get an idea about mounting the radiator. Well once that happened I had to mount the windshield....and then put a seat in it.....and the make vroom vroom noises. And my buddy tried to get all fancy with his camera angles. Keep in mind, this was after a few beers.

After seeing it like this in person, I'm desperately hoping I can keep this as ride height. I do have the option of raising my front fenders and redoing the rear wheel tubs to get more tire clearance.

117511761177

[Rooney77]

Well I didn't get a whole lot done to my jeep this weekend. I got the body level and got the windshield level. Small progress but that's something that has driven me nuts for a while now. I had to chop out two of my floor braces and make new longer ones. For the windshield I had to put some heat to the passenger arm and bend it back to the proper shape. I did get my welding table made as well. Thanks to Patrick's dad for the steel. :D And the guy modifying my intake sent me some pics of it. I'm anxious to get it back and mounted.

On a side note, we did get my buddy's motor back in his CJ finally. Now it's a matter of plumbing and wiring once he gets his new crossmember made.
1192
1193
1194
1195
1196
1197

[Rooney77]

Well it's been forever since I've updated this so I guess it's time. I'll let the pics do the talking.

First up, my crazy crossmember. This was quite the challenge to figure out. It holds the trans and transfer cases and bolts through the frame (frame is sleeved).
1393
1394
1395
1396
1397

Then came the biggest challenge I've had so far...squeezing a four link into the front. As it sits I'll have four inches of up travel and six down. This may go to 5 up and 5 down once I get it on it's own weight. I'm trying to keep it as low as possible. I still need to cut the DOM to replace the PVC but it's all tacked up. Oh and I need to make some brackets for the rear lowers.

1398
1399
1400
1401
1402

[Rooney77]

Well I bent my first piece of tube last night. Pretty complicated piece too...a shock hoop. But I won't be using it now. Turns out the shock would be leaned way too far back if I used the hoop. So after some brainstorming we came up with a solution. Again, this is all mockup/stand back and look stage. Obviously bracing, and in some spots welding, is gonna need to be done. It's basically a tube coming straight up off the frame, bending to run across the grill to again go straight down to the frame. This will have the side benefit of giving me places to mount my lights, radiator, intercooler...

FYI, not my smokes in the pic. Just saying. :D

1417

[Mudhog1977]

That looks pretty cool!

[Rooney77]

Well the front is finally done. I didn't get near as far on this thing as I wanted. My father came down so we spent Saturday working on the resto MB. I did get the front wrapped up on Sunday and yesterday. Today I'll start the rear. I got the rear axle where I wanted it last night, based on the tire placement in relation to the tub. Looks like I'll end up in the 92-93" WB range. Well on to the pics. You can see I had to trim the black out light tabs on the grill to move the shock mount forward some more. After doing so and getting it all tacked together I realized that the hoop was not symmetrical. I just couldn't deal with it so I lopped it off and made another hoop. The second one fit much better. The hoop will have tube coming off of it headed towards the firewall tying into the cage...at some point. Sorry for the blurry pics.

1421
1422
1423
1424
1425
1426

[Rooney77]

Well I got my rear 4 link all wrapped up. When you look at the pics, keep in mind that there is still bracing, boxing and cleaning up to do. All that will be done when I tear it down for final welding and all that. Anyway, on to the pics.

1437
1438
1439
1440
1441

[txjeeper]

Looks sexy man now hurry up and get that thing finished.

[Mudhog1977]

Looks sexy man now hurry up and get that thing finished.

Yea so ya'll can come help me with mine Lmao

[Puddin]

It is coming along nicely Tyler, I am jealous! Only concern I have is the front links and the amount of vertical separation. We have another club member with a similar setup and under torque he is breaking u-joints like twigs. We are having to separate his links to help this, he was only at around 12" to begin with, not sure where we will end up. The mastermind you are I am sure you have taken this into account and I trust your figures over mine, just throwing that out there for you :)

Love you man, see you ASAP

[Rooney77]

I'm around 16" separation at the axle. That should be plenty from what I figured. I'm hoping my little 90hp TDI can even turn the tires much less snap anything. :D We shall see. I miss all you guys up there.

What conditions is he snapping ujoints in? Just acceleration? Flexed out? If it's under flex it's probably because the link geometry is rotating the pinion too much. If it's acceleration then there's likely slop somewhere. I did tons of research into four link design before I ordered parts. And plenty more during the mock up phase. Have him PM me if he has any questions or anything. Or you have my number too. I'd be more than happy to share what little I know.

- - - Updated - - -

I got a little work done on the floors over the last two days. Turned out to be tougher than I thought it would be. But still not too bad. I wish I was further along on them but such is life. They are just sitting in there and will be for a while. I need to figure out if I'm going to weld the body mount bolts into the brace and leave the floor solid, drill holes in the floor so I can access the bolts or weld nuts into the braces and have the bolts come up from the bottom. I also need to finish weld the frame and get it all wrapped up before I can truly finish the floors. I didn't realize this until I got to this point. Maybe this weekend I can get the frame all wrapped up and go on with the tub. I gotta say, it's now much easier to put the seats in and make vroom vroom noises than when it was braces. Just figured I'd give a quick update. This is probably more floor than there was when I bought it. Right Puddin?

1479
1480
1481

[Blue Angel]

Great build. Thanks for taking the time to write it up and post pictures. I like how low it sits.